[JPL] Black vs White

Eric Jackson eric-jackson at comcast.net
Wed Nov 8 15:23:35 EST 2006


On Wednesday 08 November 2006 14:54, Dr. Jazz wrote:


> If this is the case, does this not apply to all endeavors? Should a label
> sign a musician ... because of what that person looks like? I don't think
> so."

I agree. So is it that this label can't find any good African American artists 
to sign? It's just simply coincidence that all the artists they sign are 
white. To tell you the truth, for a small company I could accept an answer 
like coincidence but I think the original poster was really saying that the 
company, in signing just white artists, was looking at what a person looks 
like. His argument may also have been that a company shouldn't "sign a 
musician ... because of what that person looks like."

Eric Jackson
8 pm - mid Mon - Thurs
WGBH Boston
89.7 FM
www.wgbh.org/jazz


>
> At 02:34 PM 11/8/2006, you wrote:
> >-------------------------------------------
> >
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> >
> >-------------------------------------------
> >
> >On Wednesday 08 November 2006 12:45, Dr. Jazz wrote:
> > > Actually Eric, I will not mention it to the label because it is not
> > > worth my energy or their concern!  What message do you want them to
> > > "get"?  That their music isn't of sufficient quality because of the
> > > color of any of their artists?  What if one of their groups is half
> > > white half black?  Do they get partial "credit"?
> >
> >No. They should get just the simple message that someone is concerned that
> >don't have any African American's on their label. That's all. Did the
> >original writer ask that they just sign African Americans regardless if
> > they were good or not? If not, I'm not sure where the quality issue comes
> > up. You didn't mention anything about the original poster saying that the
> > white players weren't as good as some black artists they could have
> > signed. I'm sure you aren't saying that in order for them to sign African
> > American artists they would have to reduce their standards because black
> > jazz players aren't as good as white players. If black players as a
> > general rule are as skilled as white players but the company still has an
> > all white label, I think it's a valid question why don't you have any
> > African American players?
> >
> > > I have received several replies to my initial posting via private
> > > email.  I would like to post one here:
> > >
> > > "Well, as I indicated before I'm not going to step into this particular
> > > cowpie, because no matter how delicately a response is phrased, one
> > > will still come up smelling like sheeee-itttt.
> > >
> > > However, the implication seems to be we should examine the artist
> > > roster and output of each label and play only those labels that meet
> > > (our?/ someone else's?) criterion for a certain percentage (to be
> > > determined) of Black artists vs. White artists.   Is that right?
> >
> >Who said anything like this? It wasn't in Dr. Jazz's original post. I
> > didn't say anything like this. Who said something like this? As far as I
> > know, Dr. said the guy just asked why there were no African American
> > Artists on the label. He didn't say anything about selectively playing
> > artists who meet our or someone else's criterion. In fact, in the
> > original message Dr. posted airplay wasn't even discussed so you've read
> > a lot into this that wasn't there.
> >
> > > Shouldn't ability to play one's ax and produce some artful music be a
> > > factor in our consideration?
> >
> >Certainly the important point is the artists playing ability. The problem
> > is, according to the original writer that this label apparently doesn't
> > feel like African Americans are skillful enough to be signed to their
> > label. I have a problem with that.
> >
> >And maybe this is a case of what I said in my post originally on this
> >subject.
> >The dominant group just doesn't see that there is a problem with having a
> >label that has no African American artists. What problem?
> >
> > > Sounds like we're being asked to use the same criterion for choosing
> > > musicians that we use to hire day laborers."
> >
> >I don't really understand this comment. Choose musicians on their ability
> > to play. I think the writer was wondering if the company was that color
> > blind in signing artists to their label. My feeling is that there are
> > good players on both sides of the color line. According to the original
> > writer, the company doesn't seem like they agree with that idea since
> > they have no African Americans on the label.
> >
> >Eric Jackson
> >8 pm - mid Mon - Thurs
> >WGBH Boston
> >89.7 FM
> >www.wgbh.org/jazz
> >
> > > -Dr.
> > >
> > > At 12:20 PM 11/8/2006, you wrote:
> > > >-------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >This week's sponsor:  JazzWeek Magazine
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> > > >at devon at jazzweek.com or 866-453-6401 x3.
> > > >
> > > >-------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >On Wednesday 08 November 2006 11:42, Bob Stockton wrote:
> > > > > Well, the question may have arisen from frustration of the "closed
> > > > > door," or a particularly bad day,  but why ask Dr. Jazz? Why not
> > > > > ask someone at the label in question?
> > > >
> > > >You may have answered your own question. The question really might
> > > > have been asked out of frustration. With all due respect to Dr., in
> > > > one sense he is representing the record company. Also, in the past I
> > > > knew people who worked at many of the labels. I don't know as many
> > > > people at the labels partially because the labels use indies for
> > > > promotion. I wouldn't know who to call at some of the labels. Who
> > > > would I call at Verve? Who would I call at Sony? Who would I call at
> > > > Arabesque? For the most part my contact with these labels is through
> > > > the person doing the promotion.
> > > >
> > > >My guess is that since Dr. was bothered and concerned enough to
> > > > mention this to us, he most likely will mention it to the record
> > > > company. They will get the message.
> > > >
> > > >Eric Jackson
> > > >8 pm - mid Mon - Thurs
> > > >WGBH Boston
> > > >89.7 FM
> > > >www.wgbh.org/jazz
> > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "jazzrockworld" <rick at jazzrockworld.com>
> > > > > To: "'Jazz Programmers Mailing List'" <jazzproglist at jazzweek.com>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:34 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: [JPL] Black vs White
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > This week's sponsor:  JazzWeek Magazine
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> > > > > -------------------------------------------
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> > > > > The Jazz Programmers Mailing List is a free service provided by
> > > > > JazzWeek. For more information visit us at 
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> > > > > Murphy
> > > > > at devon at jazzweek.com or 866-453-6401 x3.
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > > Two cents:
> > > > >
> > > > > Eric,
> > > > >
> > > > > I think the concept of the question "needing" to be asked at all,
> > > > > is the issue. The question itself is frighteningly valid. Maybe I'm
> > > > > being a little too "in a perfect world", but that just seems the
> > > > > way it should be to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rick Calic
> > > > > www.jazzrockworld.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: jazzproglist-bounces at jazzweek.com
> > > > > [mailto:jazzproglist-bounces at jazzweek.com] On Behalf Of Eric
> > > > > Jackson Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 7:57 AM
> > > > > To: Jazz Programmers Mailing List
> > > > > Subject: Re: [JPL] Black vs White
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > This week's sponsor:  JazzWeek Magazine
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > The Jazz Programmers Mailing List is a free service provided by
> > > > > JazzWeek. For more information visit us at 
> > > > > http://www.jazzweek.com/jpl To become a sponsor contact Devon
> > > > > Murphy at devon at jazzweek.com or 866-453-6401 x3.
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tuesday 07 November 2006 16:27, Dr. Jazz wrote:
> > > > > > I received an email today from someone in our industry that
> > > > > > really pissed me off.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The person asked if one of my client labels "...EVER record any
> > > > > > non-white artists?"
> > > > >
> > > > > That seems like a valid question to me if the label has been around
> > > > > for awhile and has recorded a number of different artists.
> > > > >
> > > > > > To say I was taken a back would be an understatement indeed!  I
> > > > > > replied that up to to the point of receiving the email in
> > > > > > question, in the 27
> > > > >
> > > > > years
> > > > >
> > > > > > in this business, the question never entered my mind.  The reply
> > > > > > I
> > > > >
> > > > > received
> > > > >
> > > > > > was:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "...Yes, and unfortunately that's the historic position white
> > > > > > folks have taken...  "You" never see such disparities unless "we"
> > > > > > point them out."
> > > > >
> > > > > Some years ago every one at WGBH was required to attend a two day
> > > > > sensitivity
> > > > > session. The sessions lasted for about a week and everyone was
> > > > > required to attend 2 days. The station even arranged subs for me so
> > > > > that I could attend.
> > > > >
> > > > > One of the things I remember from the sessions was the idea that
> > > > > the dominant
> > > > > culture often doesn't see the problems other groups are having.
> > > > > "What problem?" Men didn't see the problem with the treatment of
> > > > > women in this country until women started pointing out that they
> > > > > wanted to do more and they
> > > > > were able to do more than have babies and clean house. So in one
> > > > > sense, I think that remark agrees with what I learned in that
> > > > > sensitivity session.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Eric Jackson
> > > > > 8 pm - mid Mon - Thurs
> > > > > WGBH Boston
> > > > > 89.7 FM
> > > > > www.wgbh.org/jazz
> > > > >
> > > > > > Your thoughts?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Dr.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Jazz
> > > > > > Dr. Jazz Operations
> > > > > > 24270 Eastwood
> > > > > > Oak Park, MI  48237
> > > > > > (248) 542-7888
> > > > > > http://www.drjazz.com
> > > > > > SKYPE:  drjazz99
> > > > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > > >
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> > > >-------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >This week's sponsor:  JazzWeek Magazine
> > > >
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> > > >Delivered to: drjazz at drjazz.com
> > >
> > > Dr. Jazz
> > > Dr. Jazz Operations
> > > 24270 Eastwood
> > > Oak Park, MI  48237
> > > (248) 542-7888
> > > http://www.drjazz.com
> > > SKYPE:  drjazz99
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > This week's sponsor:  JazzWeek Magazine
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > If you're a subscriber to the JPL and NOT a subscriber to the weekly
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> > > also has reviews, listings of current releases and add dates, and music
> > > and industry news.
> > >
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> > > subscribe free -- and paid subscribers can receive extra features
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> > >
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> > >
> > > Delivered to: eric-jackson at comcast.net
> >
> >-------------------------------------------
> >
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> >
> >-------------------------------------------
> >
> >If you're a subscriber to the JPL and NOT a subscriber to the weekly PDF
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> >
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> >subscribe free -- and paid subscribers can receive extra features and/or
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> >
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> >features. Watch for it.
> >
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> >
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> >Delivered to: drjazz at drjazz.com
>
> Dr. Jazz
> Dr. Jazz Operations
> 24270 Eastwood
> Oak Park, MI  48237
> (248) 542-7888
> http://www.drjazz.com
> SKYPE:  drjazz99
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> This week's sponsor:  JazzWeek Magazine
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> If you're a subscriber to the JPL and NOT a subscriber to the weekly PDF
> edition of JazzWeek, you're missing out! See the latest jazz, smooth jazz,
> college jazz and world music charts powered by Mediaguide, as well as
> interviews with artists, industry and radio.  Each issue also has reviews,
> listings of current releases and add dates, and music and industry news.
>
> Musicians, broadcasters, industry personnel, students and educators can
> subscribe free -- and paid subscribers can receive extra features and/or
> Wednesday delivery.
>
> Visit http://www.jazzweek.com/ to find out more.
>
> ALSO: Coming this fall -- an expanded JazzWeek website with enhanced
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>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Send jazzproglist mailing list submissions to
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> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>
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