[JPL] Black vs White

Eric Hines EHines at message.nmc.edu
Wed Nov 8 15:58:20 EST 2006


 
Well, I'd have to say that discussing this issue without knowing who is
being talked about is pretty useless.
 
I mean, this sort of thing really has to come down to cases, and as
long as we don't know the label, where they're located, what sort of
music they put out, etc., etc. it's hard to say why things may be the
way they are there.
 
I think it is the case that the majority has a tough time recognizing
the problems that may exist for non-majoritarians. But, on the other
hand, not every problem identified by a non-majoritarian is necessarily
valid. It goes to cases, and without the particulars, we ought not get
ourselves worked up by this. 
 
Needlessly divisive.
 

Eric Hines
General Manager
WNMC 90.7 FM
http://www.wnmc.org ( http://www.wnmc.org/ )
1701 East Front St.
Traverse City, MI 49686

231-995-2562

>>> Jae Sinnett <jaejazz at yahoo.com> 11/8/2006 3:32 PM >>>
-------------------------------------------

This week's sponsor:  JazzWeek Magazine 

-------------------------------------------

The Jazz Programmers Mailing List is a free service provided by
JazzWeek.
For more information visit us at  http://www.jazzweek.com/jpl 
To become a sponsor contact Devon Murphy 
at devon at jazzweek.com or 866-453-6401 x3.

-------------------------------------------
Dr.....Why are you posting what supposedly other folk wrote? Why can't
they write in to the JPL - since apparently they are reading what's
posted - so everyone else can see what they're talking about and who
these folk are and not paraphrased according to you? Rather silly and
cowardly don't you think? 
   
  Jae Sinnett 

"Dr. Jazz" <drjazz at drjazz.com> wrote:
  -------------------------------------------

This week's sponsor: JazzWeek Magazine 

-------------------------------------------

The Jazz Programmers Mailing List is a free service provided by
JazzWeek.
For more information visit us at http://www.jazzweek.com/jpl 
To become a sponsor contact Devon Murphy 
at devon at jazzweek.com or 866-453-6401 x3.

-------------------------------------------
The label in question is indeed not exclusively white artists. What
does 
the color of the artist have to do with anything is my question? If the

music is good what else is there to discuss? Well, let me ask this:
Does 
the color of an artist influence your decision on whether to program a

particular release?

Here is another privately emailed reply to this thread:

"I read Sinnett's post, but it seems to me that it was just a few days
ago 
when Barak Obama while campaigning for Cardin in Md. admonished the
crowd 
not to vote for someone because of what they look like.
If this is the case, does this not apply to all endeavors? Should a
label 
sign a musician ... because of what that person looks like? I don't
think so."


At 02:34 PM 11/8/2006, you wrote:
>-------------------------------------------
>
>This week's sponsor: JazzWeek Magazine
>
>-------------------------------------------
>
>The Jazz Programmers Mailing List is a free service provided by
JazzWeek.
>For more information visit us at http://www.jazzweek.com/jpl 
>To become a sponsor contact Devon Murphy
>at devon at jazzweek.com or 866-453-6401 x3.
>
>-------------------------------------------
>On Wednesday 08 November 2006 12:45, Dr. Jazz wrote:
>
> > Actually Eric, I will not mention it to the label because it is not
worth
> > my energy or their concern! What message do you want them to "get"?
That
> > their music isn't of sufficient quality because of the color of any
of
> > their artists? What if one of their groups is half white half
black? Do
> > they get partial "credit"?
>
>No. They should get just the simple message that someone is concerned
that
>don't have any African American's on their label. That's all. Did the
>original writer ask that they just sign African Americans regardless
if they
>were good or not? If not, I'm not sure where the quality issue comes
up. You
>didn't mention anything about the original poster saying that the
white
>players weren't as good as some black artists they could have signed.
I'm
>sure you aren't saying that in order for them to sign African
American
>artists they would have to reduce their standards because black jazz
players
>aren't as good as white players. If black players as a general rule
are as
>skilled as white players but the company still has an all white label,
I
>think it's a valid question why don't you have any African American
players?
>
> >
> > I have received several replies to my initial posting via private
email. I
> > would like to post one here:
> >
> > "Well, as I indicated before I'm not going to step into this
particular
> > cowpie, because no matter how delicately a response is phrased, one
will
> > still come up smelling like sheeee-itttt.
> >
> > However, the implication seems to be we should examine the artist
roster
> > and output of each label and play only those labels that meet
(our?/
> > someone else's?) criterion for a certain percentage (to be
determined) of
> > Black artists vs. White artists. Is that right?
>
>Who said anything like this? It wasn't in Dr. Jazz's original post. I
didn't
>say anything like this. Who said something like this? As far as I
know, Dr.
>said the guy just asked why there were no African American Artists on
the
>label. He didn't say anything about selectively playing artists who
meet our
>or someone else's criterion. In fact, in the original message Dr.
posted
>airplay wasn't even discussed so you've read a lot into this that
wasn't
>there.
>
> > Shouldn't ability to play one's ax and produce some artful music be
a
> > factor in our consideration?
>
>Certainly the important point is the artists playing ability. The
problem is,
>according to the original writer that this label apparently doesn't
feel like
>African Americans are skillful enough to be signed to their label. I
have a
>problem with that.
>
>And maybe this is a case of what I said in my post originally on this

>subject.
>The dominant group just doesn't see that there is a problem with
having a
>label that has no African American artists. What problem?
>
>
>
> >
> > Sounds like we're being asked to use the same criterion for
choosing
> > musicians that we use to hire day laborers."
>
>I don't really understand this comment. Choose musicians on their
ability to
>play. I think the writer was wondering if the company was that color
blind in
>signing artists to their label. My feeling is that there are good
players on
>both sides of the color line. According to the original writer, the
company
>doesn't seem like they agree with that idea since they have no
African
>Americans on the label.
>
>Eric Jackson
>8 pm - mid Mon - Thurs
>WGBH Boston
>89.7 FM
>www.wgbh.org/jazz 
>
>
>
> >
> > -Dr.
> >
> > At 12:20 PM 11/8/2006, you wrote:
> > >-------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >This week's sponsor: JazzWeek Magazine
> > >
> > >-------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >The Jazz Programmers Mailing List is a free service provided by
JazzWeek.
> > >For more information visit us at http://www.jazzweek.com/jpl 
> > >To become a sponsor contact Devon Murphy
> > >at devon at jazzweek.com or 866-453-6401 x3.
> > >
> > >-------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >On Wednesday 08 November 2006 11:42, Bob Stockton wrote:
> > > > Well, the question may have arisen from frustration of the
"closed
> > > > door," or a particularly bad day, but why ask Dr. Jazz? Why not
ask
> > > > someone at the label in question?
> > >
> > >You may have answered your own question. The question really might
have
> > > been asked out of frustration. With all due respect to Dr., in
one sense
> > > he is representing the record company. Also, in the past I knew
people
> > > who worked at many of the labels. I don't know as many people at
the
> > > labels partially because the labels use indies for promotion. I
wouldn't
> > > know who to call at some of the labels. Who would I call at
Verve? Who
> > > would I call at Sony? Who would I call at Arabesque? For the most
part my
> > > contact with these labels is through the person doing the
promotion.
> > >
> > >My guess is that since Dr. was bothered and concerned enough to
mention
> > > this to us, he most likely will mention it to the record company.
They
> > > will get the message.
> > >
> > >Eric Jackson
> > >8 pm - mid Mon - Thurs
> > >WGBH Boston
> > >89.7 FM
> > >www.wgbh.org/jazz 
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "jazzrockworld" 
> > > > To: "'Jazz Programmers Mailing List'" 
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:34 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [JPL] Black vs White
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > This week's sponsor: JazzWeek Magazine
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > The Jazz Programmers Mailing List is a free service provided
by
> > > > JazzWeek. For more information visit us at
http://www.jazzweek.com/jpl 
> > > > To become a sponsor contact Devon Murphy
> > > > at devon at jazzweek.com or 866-453-6401 x3.
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > Two cents:
> > > >
> > > > Eric,
> > > >
> > > > I think the concept of the question "needing" to be asked at
all, is
> > > > the issue. The question itself is frighteningly valid. Maybe
I'm being
> > > > a little too "in a perfect world", but that just seems the way
it
> > > > should be to me.
> > > >
> > > > Rick Calic
> > > > www.jazzrockworld.com 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: jazzproglist-bounces at jazzweek.com 
> > > > [mailto:jazzproglist-bounces at jazzweek.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Jackson
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 7:57 AM
> > > > To: Jazz Programmers Mailing List
> > > > Subject: Re: [JPL] Black vs White
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > This week's sponsor: JazzWeek Magazine
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > The Jazz Programmers Mailing List is a free service provided
by
> > > > JazzWeek. For more information visit us at
http://www.jazzweek.com/jpl 
> > > > To become a sponsor contact Devon Murphy at devon at jazzweek.com
or
> > > > 866-453-6401 x3.
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > On Tuesday 07 November 2006 16:27, Dr. Jazz wrote:
> > > > > I received an email today from someone in our industry that
really
> > > > > pissed me off.
> > > > >
> > > > > The person asked if one of my client labels "...EVER record
any
> > > > > non-white artists?"
> > > >
> > > > That seems like a valid question to me if the label has been
around for
> > > > awhile and has recorded a number of different artists.
> > > >
> > > > > To say I was taken a back would be an understatement indeed!
I
> > > > > replied that up to to the point of receiving the email in
question,
> > > > > in the 27
> > > >
> > > > years
> > > >
> > > > > in this business, the question never entered my mind. The
reply I
> > > >
> > > > received
> > > >
> > > > > was:
> > > > >
> > > > > "...Yes, and unfortunately that's the historic position white
folks
> > > > > have taken... "You" never see such disparities unless "we"
point
> > > > > them out."
> > > >
> > > > Some years ago every one at WGBH was required to attend a two
day
> > > > sensitivity
> > > > session. The sessions lasted for about a week and everyone was
required
> > > > to attend 2 days. The station even arranged subs for me so that
I could
> > > > attend.
> > > >
> > > > One of the things I remember from the sessions was the idea
that the
> > > > dominant
> > > > culture often doesn't see the problems other groups are having.
"What
> > > > problem?" Men didn't see the problem with the treatment of
women in
> > > > this country until women started pointing out that they wanted
to do
> > > > more and they
> > > > were able to do more than have babies and clean house. So in
one sense,
> > > > I think that remark agrees with what I learned in that
sensitivity
> > > > session.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Eric Jackson
> > > > 8 pm - mid Mon - Thurs
> > > > WGBH Boston
> > > > 89.7 FM
> > > > www.wgbh.org/jazz 
> > > >
> > > > > Your thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > > > -Dr.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Jazz
> > > > > Dr. Jazz Operations
> > > > > 24270 Eastwood
> > > > > Oak Park, MI 48237
> > > > > (248) 542-7888
> > > > > http://www.drjazz.com ( http://www.drjazz.com/ )
> > > > > SKYPE: drjazz99
> > > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > This week's sponsor: JazzWeek Magazine
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > If you're a subscriber to the JPL and NOT a subscriber to the
weekly
> > > > > PDF edition of JazzWeek, you're missing out! See the latest
jazz,
> > > > > smooth jazz, college jazz and world music charts powered by
> > > > > Mediaguide, as well as interviews with artists, industry and
radio.
> > > > > Each issue also has reviews, listings of current releases and
add
> > > > > dates, and music and industry news.
> > > > >
> > > > > Musicians, broadcasters, industry personnel, students and
educators
> > > > > can subscribe free -- and paid subscribers can receive extra
features
> > > > > and/or Wednesday delivery.
> > > > >
> > > > > Visit http://www.jazzweek.com/ to find out more.
> > > > >
> > > > > ALSO: Coming this fall -- an expanded JazzWeek website with
enhanced
> > > > > features. Watch for it.
> > > > >
> > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > > >
> > > > > Send jazzproglist mailing list submissions to
> > > > > jazzproglist at jazzweek.com 
> > > > >
> > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > > > http://lists.jazzweek.com/mailman/listinfo/jazzproglist 
> > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > > > jazzproglist-request at jazzweek.com 
> > > > >
> > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > > > jazzproglist-owner at jazzweek.com 
> > > > >
> > > > > Delivered to: eric-jackson at comcast.net 
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > This week's sponsor: JazzWeek Magazine
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > If you're a subscriber to the JPL and NOT a subscriber to the
weekly
> > > > PDF edition of JazzWeek, you're missing out! See the latest
jazz,
> > > > smooth jazz, college jazz and world music charts powered by
Mediaguide,
> > > > as well as interviews with artists, industry and radio. Each
issue
> > > > also has reviews, listings of current releases and add dates,
and music
> > > > and industry news.
> > > >
> > > > Musicians, broadcasters, industry personnel, students and
educators can
> > > > subscribe free -- and paid subscribers can receive extra
features
> > > > and/or Wednesday delivery.
> > > >
> > > > Visit http://www.jazzweek.com/ to find out more.
> > > >
> > > > ALSO: Coming this fall -- an expanded JazzWeek website with
enhanced
> > > > features. Watch for it.
> > > >
> > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > >
> > > > Send jazzproglist mailing list submissions to
> > > > jazzproglist at jazzweek.com 
> > > >
> > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > > http://lists.jazzweek.com/mailman/listinfo/jazzproglist 
> > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > > jazzproglist-request at jazzweek.com 
> > > >
> > > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > > jazzproglist-owner at jazzweek.com 
> > > >
> > > > Delivered to: rick at jazzrockworld.com 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > This week's sponsor: JazzWeek Magazine
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > If you're a subscriber to the JPL and NOT a subscriber to the
weekly
> > > > PDF edition of JazzWeek, you're missing out! See the latest
jazz,
> > > > smooth jazz, college jazz and world music charts powered by
Mediaguide,
> > > > as well as interviews with artists, industry and radio. Each
issue
> > > > also has reviews, listings of current releases and add dates,
and music
> > > > and industry news.
> > > >
> > > > Musicians, broadcasters, industry personnel, students and
educators can
> > > > subscribe free -- and paid subscribers can receive extra
features
> > > > and/or Wednesday delivery.
> > > >
> > > > Visit http://www.jazzweek.com/ to find out more.
> > > >
> > > > ALSO: Coming this fall -- an expanded JazzWeek website with
enhanced
> > > > features. Watch for it.
> > > >
> > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > >
> > > > Send jazzproglist mailing list submissions to
> > > > jazzproglist at jazzweek.com 
> > > >
> > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > > http://lists.jazzweek.com/mailman/listinfo/jazzproglist 
> > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > > jazzproglist-request at jazzweek.com 
> > > >
> > > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > > jazzproglist-owner at jazzweek.com 
> > > >
> > > > Delivered to: drbob at modernjazzclassics.com 
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > This week's sponsor: JazzWeek Magazine
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > If you're a subscriber to the JPL and NOT a subscriber to the
weekly
> > > > PDF edition of JazzWeek, you're missing out! See the latest
jazz,
> > > > smooth jazz, college jazz and world music charts powered by
Mediaguide,
> > > > as well as interviews with artists, industry and radio. Each
issue
> > > > also has reviews, listings of current releases and add dates,
and music
> > > > and industry news.
> > > >
> > > > Musicians, broadcasters, industry personnel, students and
educators can
> > > > subscribe free -- and paid subscribers can receive extra
features
> > > > and/or Wednesday delivery.
> > > >
> > > > Visit http://www.jazzweek.com/ to find out more.
> > > >
> > > > ALSO: Coming this fall -- an expanded JazzWeek website with
enhanced
> > > > features. Watch for it.
> > > >
> > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > >
> > > > Send jazzproglist mailing list submissions to
> > > > jazzproglist at jazzweek.com 
> > > >
> > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > > http://lists.jazzweek.com/mailman/listinfo/jazzproglist 
> > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > > jazzproglist-request at jazzweek.com 
> > > >
> > > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > > jazzproglist-owner at jazzweek.com 
> > > >
> > > > Delivered to: eric-jackson at comcast.net 
> > >
> > >-------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >This week's sponsor: JazzWeek Magazine
> > >
> > >-------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >If you're a subscriber to the JPL and NOT a subscriber to the
weekly PDF
> > >edition of JazzWeek, you're missing out! See the latest jazz,
smooth jazz,
> > >college jazz and world music charts powered by Mediaguide, as well
as
> > >interviews with artists, industry and radio. Each issue also has
reviews,
> > >listings of current releases and add dates, and music and industry
news.
> > >
> > >Musicians, broadcasters, industry personnel, students and
educators can
> > >subscribe free -- and paid subscribers can receive extra features
and/or
> > >Wednesday delivery.
> > >
> > >Visit http://www.jazzweek.com/ to find out more.
> > >
> > >ALSO: Coming this fall -- an expanded JazzWeek website with
enhanced
> > >features. Watch for it.
> > >
> > >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > >
> > >Send jazzproglist mailing list submissions to
> > > jazzproglist at jazzweek.com 
> > >
> > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > http://lists.jazzweek.com/mailman/listinfo/jazzproglist 
> > >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > jazzproglist-request at jazzweek.com 
> > >
> > >You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > jazzproglist-owner at jazzweek.com 
> > >
> > >Delivered to: drjazz at drjazz.com 
> >
> > Dr. Jazz
> > Dr. Jazz Operations
> > 24270 Eastwood
> > Oak Park, MI 48237
> > (248) 542-7888
> > http://www.drjazz.com ( http://www.drjazz.com/ )
> > SKYPE: drjazz99
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> >
> > This week's sponsor: JazzWeek Magazine
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> >
> > If you're a subscriber to the JPL and NOT a subscriber to the
weekly PDF
> > edition of JazzWeek, you're missing out! See the latest jazz,
smooth jazz,
> > college jazz and world music charts powered by Mediaguide, as well
as
> > interviews with artists, industry and radio. Each issue also has
reviews,
> > listings of current releases and add dates, and music and industry
news.
> >
> > Musicians, broadcasters, industry personnel, students and educators
can
> > subscribe free -- and paid subscribers can receive extra features
and/or
> > Wednesday delivery.
> >
> > Visit http://www.jazzweek.com/ to find out more.
> >
> > ALSO: Coming this fall -- an expanded JazzWeek website with
enhanced
> > features. Watch for it.
> >
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> > Send jazzproglist mailing list submissions to
> > jazzproglist at jazzweek.com 
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://lists.jazzweek.com/mailman/listinfo/jazzproglist 
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > jazzproglist-request at jazzweek.com 
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > jazzproglist-owner at jazzweek.com 
> >
> > Delivered to: eric-jackson at comcast.net 
>-------------------------------------------
>
>This week's sponsor: JazzWeek Magazine
>
>-------------------------------------------
>
>If you're a subscriber to the JPL and NOT a subscriber to the weekly
PDF 
>edition of JazzWeek, you're missing out! See the latest jazz, smooth
jazz, 

=== message truncated ===


---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
-------------------------------------------

This week's sponsor:  JazzWeek Magazine

-------------------------------------------

If you're a subscriber to the JPL and NOT a subscriber to the weekly
PDF edition of JazzWeek, you're missing out! See the latest jazz, smooth
jazz, college jazz and world music charts powered by Mediaguide, as well
as interviews with artists, industry and radio.  Each issue also has
reviews, listings of current releases and add dates, and music and
industry news.

Musicians, broadcasters, industry personnel, students and educators can
subscribe free -- and paid subscribers can receive extra features and/or
Wednesday delivery.

Visit http://www.jazzweek.com/ to find out more.

ALSO: Coming this fall -- an expanded JazzWeek website with enhanced
features. Watch for it.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Send jazzproglist mailing list submissions to
jazzproglist at jazzweek.com 

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.jazzweek.com/mailman/listinfo/jazzproglist 
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
jazzproglist-request at jazzweek.com 

You can reach the person managing the list at
jazzproglist-owner at jazzweek.com 

Delivered to: ehines at message.nmc.edu


More information about the jazzproglist mailing list