[JPL] carney-rollini

Jae Sinnett jaejazz at yahoo.com
Sun Sep 3 23:06:33 EDT 2006


Tom, I would agree in that rhythmically and harmonically there weren't many differences with Rollini and Carney......in the 20's and 30's. I would be very surprised if you felt there weren't any differences in their blues ideologies or find this to be insignificant in the jazz context. From my perspective this is where the main and most important contrast existed - that brings one closer to jazz than the other. 
   
  Rollini was an interesting musician indeed. He was well known for his saxophone "technique" which drew the attention of many and he was also known for making music on non instruments.....like blowing into fountain pens and such - which also drew the attention. Remember the "Goofus" group he was a part of? Kind of a novelty/pop song dixieland group where he also played that strange gizmo keyboard thing I think called the "Goofus." While this was a "hot dance" band he was a serious musician. Actually the saxophone wasn't even his first instrument but it was the one he played better than any other. 
   
   Playing the blues though doesn't necessarily have as much to do with phrasing as it does with note choices and emotional impact. The blues is clearly evident in Carney's playing and that's what separated him from Rollini. That's the main thing that separated the Ellington and Basie Orchestras from most of the swing bands......the blues. Carney could phrase anyway he wanted - even at that time - but it was still these "notes" and his soulful foundation that shaped his blues sensibilities. For me that's of paramount importance if you're going to play jazz because without it how much jazz are you dealing with? This is why I say Carney was the first to really bring the baritone out front in a "jazz" context because that's where his focus was. 
   
  Jae 

Tom Reney <tr at wfcr.org> wrote:
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Jae:
I would dispute the drawing of distinctions between Adrian Rollini and Harry 
Carney on a matter of blues tonality, and I don't think there's that much 
difference in terms of the fundamentals of rhythm and harmony either, at 
least not in the 20's and '30's. Like Coleman Hawkins, who was his major 
influence, Carney had a heavily-arpeggiated, vertical conception. His 
attack was far more up and down than the legato, horizontal approach of 
blues-oriented players. Over the years, the influence of Johnny Hodges (one 
of the great innovators of a vertical/horizontal synthesis) became somewhat 
more pronounced in Carney's playing, but there's far more similarity than 
difference between Rollini and Carney back in the day. Moreover, it's 
Carney who continually singled Rollini out for praise and acknowledgment.
Tom


> -------------------------------------------
> For sure Tom I'm very aware there were others playing baritone but none 
> brought it to the forefront of II V swinging jazz like Carney did. There 
> are fundamental rhythmic, conceptual and harmonic differences in so called 
> traditional jazz vs New Orleans jazz or classic. The beat and phrasing was 
> different and the harmonic direction of Carney....like Ellington.... was 
> based on blues tonality. That wasn't the case with Rollini but never the 
> less technically he was an influential improviser that brought an 
> interesting sort of musicality to a rather strange instrument.
>
> Jae
>
>
>
>
>
> Tom Reney wrote:
> -------------------------------------------
>
> This week's sponsor: Dare2 and Sunnyside Records
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> The Jazz Programmers Mailing List is a free service provided by JazzWeek.
> For more information visit us at http://www.jazzweek.com/jpl
> To become a sponsor contact Ed Trefzger
> at ed.trefzger at jazzweek.com or 866-453-6401.
>
> -------------------------------------------
> The 1954 Clef session was billed as Harry Carney With Strings, but it's 
> been
> reissued in a multiple-session set under Ben Webster's name entitled Music
> for Loving. The Carney billing remains intact on this 2-CD set, but the 8
> titles recorded under his name didn't constitute enough material for a CD
> release of its own; still, Verve should have listed it under Webster and
> Carney's names.
>
> Carney is only arguably the "first out of the gate." Coleman Hawkins, 
> Eddie
> Barefield, and Jack Washington were playing substantial ensemble passages 
> on
> baritone contemporaneously with Carney; no doubt others too. One is in
> murky waters when trying to determine firsts in jazz of this period; the
> music was only beginning to be documented on records in any substantial
> manner from 1923, but it's got a lineage that precedes recordings.
>
> And don't forget the amazing Adrian Rollini, who recorded prolifically 
> with
> the California Ramblers between 1922 and '27, later with Goodman, 
> Teagarden,
> his own groups. While he played the bass saxophone, Rollini was truly a
> primary model for these and many other players of the bari and other 
> reeds.
> Rollin's intonation, sound and fluid style astonished Carney, Barefield, 
> and
> Budd Johnson. Carney said he tried to make his upper register sound like
> Hawk's tenor, and his lower like Rollini's bass. When Wynton Marsalis
> polled a number of jazz greats on their favorite solos for his NPR series
> Making the Music, Gerry Mulligan cited a 1933 recording featuring Rollini,
> whom he mistook to be playing a baritone. It's worth noting that Rollini
> used a baritone mouthpiece and reeds, and he had the neck of his bass
> saxophone customized to be more like that of a bari.
>
>
> Tom Reney
> "Jazz à la Mode"
> Monday-Thursday, 8 p.m.-Midnight
>
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> NPR News and Music for Western New England
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>
> tr at wfcr.org
> www.wfcr.org
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> Following up his Grammy award-winning album Overtime, DAVE HOLLAND returns 
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> highly acclaimed quintet featuring CHRIS POTTER (tenor and soprano), STEVE 
> NELSON (vibes), ROBIN EUBANKS (trombone), and NATE SMITH (drums). CRITICAL 
> MASS features eight road-tested, original compositions on record for the 
> first time and, of course, masterful performances by a jazz group that has 
> become a trademark for excellence in music.
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>
> LIMITED TIME ONLY!!! -- 100 MP3 free copies of a new version Dave's 
> classic tune Dream of the Elders (recorded during the Critical Mass 
> sessions) are available for download here: http://tinyurl.com/nf5hn
>
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>
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> Following up his Grammy award-winning album Overtime, DAVE HOLLAND returns 
> with CRITICAL MASS, the first new studio album in five years from his 
> highly acclaimed quintet featuring CHRIS POTTER (tenor and soprano), STEVE 
> NELSON (vibes), ROBIN EUBANKS (trombone), and NATE SMITH (drums). 
> CRITICAL MASS features eight road-tested, original compositions on record 
> for the first time and, of course, masterful performances by a jazz group 
> that has become a trademark for excellence in music.
>
> ON YOUR DESKS NOW!
>
> GOING FOR ADDS: 8/28 and 8/29
>
> IN STORES: 8/29
>
> FALL TOUR DATES, UPDATED BIO, PRESS RELEASE, PHOTOS and more, please visit 
> Rock Paper Scissors's OPK at: http://tinyurl.com/fkfls
>
> LIMITED TIME ONLY!!! -- 100 MP3 free copies of a new version Dave's 
> classic tune Dream of the Elders (recorded during the Critical Mass 
> sessions) are available for download here: http://tinyurl.com/nf5hn
>
> For more information, interviews, etc. -- please contact: 
> garrett at sunnysiderecords.com
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Send jazzproglist mailing list submissions to
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-------------------------------------------

This week's sponsor:  Dare2 and Sunnyside Records

-------------------------------------------
Following up his Grammy award-winning album Overtime, DAVE HOLLAND returns with CRITICAL MASS, the first new studio album in five years from his highly acclaimed quintet featuring CHRIS POTTER (tenor and soprano), STEVE NELSON (vibes), ROBIN EUBANKS (trombone), and NATE SMITH (drums). CRITICAL MASS features eight road-tested, original compositions on record for the first time and, of course, masterful performances by a jazz group that has become a trademark for excellence in music.

ON YOUR DESKS NOW!

GOING FOR ADDS: 8/28 and 8/29

IN STORES: 8/29

FALL TOUR DATES, UPDATED BIO, PRESS RELEASE, PHOTOS and more, please visit Rock Paper Scissors's OPK at: http://tinyurl.com/fkfls

LIMITED TIME ONLY!!! -- 100 MP3 free copies of a new version Dave's classic tune Dream of the Elders (recorded during the Critical Mass sessions) are available for download here: http://tinyurl.com/nf5hn

For more information, interviews, etc. -- please contact: garrett at sunnysiderecords.com

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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