[JPL] Promotion people, a rant

Jane Dashow jazzzdog at nyc.rr.com
Thu Nov 17 15:22:23 EST 2011


Hi All
I agree with Josh at Groov. Jazzzdog does the same thing: customize for
clients. We know that times are tough and have a reasonable rate as well as
flexibility in campaigns. There isn't always time for lengthy conversations
with clients but we are always available-even if the physical conversation
has to happen a couple of days later because of call volume to radio itself.
There are some clients who are completely happy with emails but that is
after we discuss things over the phone or in person before we get started. A
comprehensive weekly report is imperative and honest is of the utmost. 
It makes us sad to think there are people that are not on the up and up.
Jazzzdog was started to help artists. We haven't changed our rate in years
because we want to be able to be there for the jazz community. It isn't
about our bottom line as much as it is about great music getting in the
hands of radio.
We will not guarantee numbers on the charts because we can't predict things
but we also will not take a project if we feel it won't work for the
majority of the stations. It is not fair to the potential client. We've
also, on rare occasions, given back a portion of the money for a campaign
because we feel it didn't perform up to our expectations. Again, times are
tough and we are not in it to take anyone for a ride.
Be honest, available and do the work; that is what we all need to do.

Jane Dashow
Jazzzdog promotions

-----Original Message-----
From: jazzproglist-bounces at jazzweek.com
[mailto:jazzproglist-bounces at jazzweek.com] On Behalf Of Josh Ellman
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:09 PM
To: jazzproglist at jazzweek.com
Subject: Re: [JPL] Promotion people, a rant


Ricky, et al...

I think these are all valid questions.

We at Groov do have different levels of service as well as tailor make our
mailing lists to accommodate specific releases be it a College, World
Oriented or a Straight Ahead project.

Communication is key and while we realize we won't get ahold of every
station every week, we make the effort and our "Smart Phones" keep us in
touch more often than before when we were confined to an office 9-5 in the
past.

I agree with you that it is imperative to be in contact with your client.
Mark and I do everything possible to be available and explain our reports
and spreadsheets.  Some artists need more attention than others while some
managers need more attention that artists. Either way if we are not busy
working records to radio, radio can attest that we are certainly busy
working tours and obtaining interviews. That, in and of itself keeps us in
direct communication with our clients more than ever.

Value is a key word. At the very least, if we have not been able to chart a
CD for a client, we want them to walk away feeling we tried to accomplish
"REAL" radio airplay and create as much visibilty as we could within the
parameters we have been hired to work.

Best,

Joshua Ellman
Groov Marketing & Consulting


On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:43 AM, <onthebeach at aol.com> wrote:

>
> janice mancuso writes:
>
>
> Clients who have received shoddy service may not know how poor with
> nothing to
> compare to or feel shame at making a poor decision.
>
> in some ways, both are true.  i can attest the client i referenced has
> been beating themselves up and is rather distressed.
> so much so that questions about how this affects the career going forward
> have contributed to this person feeling ill and depressed.
>
>
> even without having something to compare with, however, any conscious
> person knows when they are receiving a quality of service
> (some reasonable level of attention and responsiveness) or not--and this
> has nothing to do with success, which can never be guaranteed
> (unless the promoter is excellent, confidant and willing to some extent to
> put it on the line).
>
>
> if i was paying someone three to four hundred dollars per week to promote
> my record, i would feel entitled to have a reasonable flow of
communication,
> not simply get emailed reports.  to have a couple of short phone calls per
> week doesnt seem unreasonable.  nor does having simply email replied
> to and in a timely fashion.
>
>
> unfortunately, due to the economics, the majority of jazz artists can not
> afford a team as we often see in other genres. some of those who can, hire
> me to assemble and direct a team, analyze and direct (much like what i did
> for years at labels). they are looking to receive value, like any other
> client.
>
>
> it would be interesting to see radio weigh in-without naming names-on
> their feelings about promoters who rely on email; if they are aware
> that certain promoters are being paid for more records than they can
> discuss in a typical conversation [there's a topic unto itself].  how many
> minutes , on average,
> does a radio person allow for each promoter?  what portion of that is
> about the projects themselves? [a 2012 panel, ed?]
>
>
> i do know of a few promoters who have created different levels of
> service-nothing wrong with that-providing access to some artists who cant
> afford to pony up
> $1800 to $2400, for starters.  as long as the artist knows what
> he/she/they are to receive as a baseline service, its all good. the few
bad
> apples are entrenched in their ways,  will they wise up, respond
positively
> and start earning their money?  im not sure they deserve additional
> chances.  i just dont want to hear about other artists having these kind
of
> devoid-of-value-experiences.
>
>
> bright moments,
> ricky schultz
> www.jazzconsultant.com
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Janice Mancuso <janmancuso at me.com>
> To: JPL List <jazzproglist at jazzweek.com>
> Sent: Thu, Nov 17, 2011 5:06 am
> Subject: [JPL] Promotion people, a rant
>
>
>
> Ed;
>
> Thank you for acknowledging the tough situation this puts many folks in.
>
> Abuse of a person or profession is difficult to point out when all parties
> are
> stakeholders.
>
> Clients who have received shoddy service may not know how poor with
> nothing to
> compare to or feel shame at making a poor decision.
>
> Others in the profession don't want to appear display sour grapes.
>
> Our business is tiny.
>
> Due to the 'competitive' nature of business, labels or artists may not
> seek out
> references for promotional services and yet that's what makes sense.
>
> Engaging someone to present your work without checking them out with
> references
> is akin to hiring a contractor to make over your kitchen without do
> diligence.
>
> Cavet emptor.  And that goes for folks who are asked to suggest or
> recommend the
> work of others.
>
> It is possible to give a reference without discussing 'state secrets' or
> being
> slanderous.
>
> Jan
>
> Reference Recordings/KMHD volunteer
> Portland, OR
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 01:30:20 -0500
> > From: Ed Trefzger <ed.trefzger at jazzweek.com>
> > Subject: Re: [JPL] Promotion people, a rant
> > To: jazzproglist at jazzweek.com
> > Message-ID: <CE7C6FA3-BFA4-4278-9FA4-5F7D6612B059 at jazzweek.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > I know none of us want to see unscrupulous or unprofessional people work
> projects, especially for individual artists for whom the fee is a
> significant
> investment.
> >
> > But I would ask that names not be named on this list, just to avoid the
> blow-ups or liabilities that would occur.
> >
> > However, I am occasionally asked to make recommendations or suggest
> promoters
> to musicians from time to time. I almost never give a single name but
> several.
> But if there is a problem with certain people, I'd prefer not to make a
> recommendation. I don't want to see those complaints on the list or in
> writing,
> but I'd be happy to take a phone call on the issue with the utmost
> confidentiality at 585-210-0599.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > On Nov 16, 2011, at 6:17 PM, mfa - jazz radio promotion, publicity &
> consulting wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I second that, Jane - and Mark, couldn't have said it better myself!
> >>
> >> Mitchell
> >> [JPL] Promotion people, a rant
> >>
> >> Jane Dashow jazzzdog at nyc.rr.com
> >> Wed Nov 16 16:35:43 EST 2011
> >> Previous message: [JPL] Promotion people, a rant
> >> Next message: [JPL] Today's Plays
> >> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
> >> Here here Mark!
> >>
> >> Jane Dashow
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: jazzproglist-bounces at jazzweek.com
> >> [mailto:jazzproglist-bounces at jazzweek.com] On Behalf Of Mark Rini
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 4:28 PM
> >> To: jazzproglist at jazzweek.com
> >> Subject: Re: [JPL] Promotion people, a rant
> >>
> >>
> >> Ricky,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> By the lack of replies, it seems that this is something most would
> rather
> >> not discuss. As a long time radio promoter, it is, to say the least,
> very
> >> disturbing to hear this again.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We've been contacted by a few labels/artists ourselves that had similar
> >> experiences as you described with certain other promoters. One well
> known
> >> and one I wasn't familiar with  Not returning a clients call, one who
> has
> >> paid you good money, is bullshit and creates a stigma that all of the
> other
> >> legit  records reps have to deal with.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I think it would be in poor form for one promoter to out another, as it
> >> could be misconstrued as sour grapes, but I do think that person(s)
> should
> >> be held accountable, so as far as I'm concerned...they should be outed
> by
> >> the burned client . I know Josh and I, as well as a few others out
there
> >> who are legit, work too damn hard for someone to tarnish the image of
> what
> >> we do. Artists and labels deserve to know this info.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> While I don't think any promoter can guarantee spectacular chart
results
> >> as I said to you off list, the effort should be a given. We're dealing
> with
> >> someone's art, passion and livelihood. Respect for it is mandatory.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks for having the "stones" to keep bringing this up.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 3:01 PM, <onthebeach at aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> allow me to weigh in, and quote Peter Drucker to begin:
> >>> "The aim of marketing is to know and understand the customer
> >>> so well the product or service fits him and sells itself."
> >>> this also includes understanding, as matthias points out, that not
> every
> >>> release is going to work
> >>> for every station...or any station perhaps.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> this dovetails in to something i alluded to recently:  THERE ARE SOME
> >>> WEAK-ASS promotion people out there,
> >>> bordering on "thieves".  some with rather popular, high-profiles.
>  record
> >>> promotion can be augmented
> >>> with email but nothing replaces speaking with the other person.  and a
> >>> promotion person provides a service
> >>> for which their client pays them.  while the client must understand
> there
> >>> can be no guarantees regarding success,
> >>> at minimum, the promoter must respect their client and the
money...they
> >>> must earn the money by
> >>> MAKING REAL EFFORT AND BY COMMUNICATING (PROVIDING FEEDBACK) TO THE
> >> CLIENT.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> i recently had a consulting client who couldnt connect with my
> recommended
> >>> promoter.  the way this artist was treated
> >>> borders on RIPPED OFF: no meaningful feedback, no quotes, no track
> >>> information.  shakey, inconsistent tracking sheets
> >>> that to a professional eye looked made up.  even worse? this promoter
> >>> wouldnt take phone calls and essentially blew off
> >>> the client's request via email and gave the absolute minimal answer
> when
> >>> and if they responded.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> this particular artist gave the promoter something to work with: a
> track
> >>> record with some upper half of the chart titles;
> >>> some notable guest artists, some really solid music compatible with
> jazz
> >>> radio AND was already bubbling under the chart!
> >>> (oh yeah and the  had titles and times in all the right places).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> this promoter so lacked professionalism and respect for this client
> THEY
> >>> SHOULD BE OUTED!  every promoter must understand
> >>> what they take on, and importantly the CO$T$ to the artist.  they
> commit a
> >>> couple grand to pay you + the cost of sample CDs,
> >>> mailers and postage.  times are tough for everybody.  if an artist
> >>> delivers a project that is embraced by dozens of reporters,
> >>> at the minimum they deserve to know what tracks are getting spun and
> they
> >>> should walk away from the campaign with at least
> >>> a couple of notable quotes to add to their press kit, web site, social
> >>> networks etc.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> i wish i could wave a magic wand and BANISH the few miserly greedy
> >>> promoters.  the good guys and gals would have a little more pie to
> share
> >>> and would be doing ok. if you are a service provider, the client
always
> >>> comes first!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> bright moments,
> >>> ricky schultz
> >>> www.jazzconsultant.com
> >>>
> >>
>
>
>
> --
>
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>
>
>
> --
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-- 
Joshua M. Ellman
Groov Marketing & Consulting (Southwest)
1813 N. Ave 46
Los Angeles, CA 90041
1-877-GROOV-32
Direct: 323-257-0676
Office Hours
Mon-Fri. 9:30 - 5:30 PST
http://www.groovmarketing.com


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