[JPL] BAM, and mr thomas?

onthebeach at aol.com onthebeach at aol.com
Tue Jan 17 15:49:53 EST 2012


             from where on earth does mr. thomas get this notion:   "Jazz is a term that was given to 
            American classical music around 1900, by the New Orleans aristocrats" ?  this seems absurd 
            on its face. to begin with, i cant imagine many people believe "American Classical Music" existed
            around 1900.  there wasnt a sufficient body of key works to suggest such a thing.   take me to 1930
            when we have some great Armstrong and Ellington et al and there is something to talk about.


            ray's outline is much closer to things ive heard ( i've read and heard jazz from "jizz", "jass" from "ass" (sex)
            but never any reference to jackass).  i have also never heard it suggested the New Orleans "aristocrats"
            gave it its name(s).  logic would suggest the various slang acronyms being generated by the musicians themselves. 


            any artist should be free to label their art what they wish.  ITS JUST A DAMNED SHAME jazz continues to suffer
            through senseless infighting and attrition.  the jazz community continues to shoot itself in the foot and reject the
            idea that there is "strength in numbers."  i also think its a shame african americans dont universally celebrate and
            embrace one of their greatest contributions to the world of art (and if the root of that in in the church we have to get past                     that).


            i would offer that the number of great african american practitioners who were/are proud to be identified as jazz musicians
            far outnumbers those who rejected this notion or label. as has been pointed out previously by others, people in the know                 view jazz artists with respect for their dedication and highly evolved skills.  its also a shame that STILL in the land of its birth
            JAZZ is not revered and celebrated more.  at least we can thank Congressman John Conyers for havIng Jazz named and
            officially recognized as a NATIONAL TREASURE.


            i have great respect for nicholas peyton and i admire his willingness to stretch his artistic expression.  it will be interesting to
            see whether he and others return to the Jazz banner in the coming years. just as our men and women in uniform have
            fought for the liberties and freedoms we enjoy today, so too have countless jazz warriors fought the good fight, and along
            the way contributed so mightily to what would become the Civil Rights Movement.  I wonder what the late, great Martin
            Luther King, Jr. would make of this thread.


ricky schultz
jazzconsultant.com






-----Original Message-----
From: HighNote Records <jazzdepo at ix.netcom.com>
To: jazzproglist <jazzproglist at jazzweek.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 17, 2012 3:02 am
Subject: Re: [JPL] BAM


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I would not presume to comment on Mr. Payton's obviously deeply-felt 
thoughts on jazz but when Mr. Thomas states with certainty that 'jazz' 
"means 'jack-ass'" he is quite wrong.

There has been much speculation on the origin of the word jazz and while I 
don't claim to know all the latest scholarly tomes on the subject I have 
never seen a contraction of jack-ass put forward as a possibility.

Buddy Bolden's first name was Charles and some claim that it was derived 
from "Chas."

Others claim it comes from the word "jasmine" which was the scent most 
popular with the working girls of Storyville.  The phrase, "I'm going to get 
me some jas tonight," used jas as a euphemism for sex and the word, like 
most slang terms, was broadened to include any number of things.

Some scholars believe the word goes back to African or Arabic roots while 
other cite the French word "jaser" which means "to chatter."

Other legends abound - vaudevillian Joe Frisco is said to to have coined the 
phrase while the proprietor of Schiller's in Chicago gets the credit in one 
story and there must be dozens of others.  Nick LaRocca claimed that "Jass" 
became "Jazz" when they started advertising it on posters and neighborhood 
kids would wipe out the 'J'.

The true origins of the word have no doubt been lost to the mists of time 
and we shall never know where it came from.  If Mr. Thomas has a source for 
"jack-ass" I would very much like to see it.  My nay-saying is for the sake 
of accuracy, not to be confrontational.  In any event, some of the 
possibilities I HAVE seen are no better, and some are worse, than 'jack-ass' 
to be sure.

As for denying its dignity - I am sure there were many in those early days 
who wished to do so - this ruinous devil's music which would surely lead one 
down the path to perdition was to be avoided at all cost!  But for others it 
associating the music with the way of the flesh and wild physical & 
emotional abandon only made it as desirable as all forbidden fruit and, most 
important to some, marketable.

American Classical Music?  hmmm....I wonder what Aaron Copland would say? 
:-)

Ray Osnato
HighNote Records

-----Original Message----- 
From: Larry Thomas
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 9:58 AM
To: jazzproglist at jazzweek.com
Subject: RE: [JPL] BAM

THIS WEEK'S SPONSOR: The JazzWeek relaunch -- JazzWeek 2.0 -- crowdfunding 
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Greetings,

I have been hesitant to response to this subject because most people who 
know me know I don't call this music "jazz," a term that was given to it to 
deny it its dignity.  It means "jack-ass."  I call it American Classical 
Music, and so does Ahmad Jamal and others who perform it.  I don't see a 
thing wrong with musicians such Nicholas Payton calling it BAM.  It would be 
very arrogant, ignorant, racist and done right wrong for me to deny this 
music its dignity.  Thank you Nick and keep on keeping on!

Larry Reni Thomas



WHAT IS JAZZ? by LARRY RENI THOMAS


Jazz is a term that was given to American classical music around 1900, by 
the New Orleans aristocrats who after visiting the whorehouses and hearing 
the black musicians play the sounds of freedom, sought to deny it its 
dignity when they realized that they couldn't play it and that their 
associates could not play it either. It has never belonged to black people 
nor will it ever. When the aristocrats realized that they could exploit it 
and make money off of it, the music, which is a reflection of the 
African-American musical reaction to the modern era, they took it over and 
have controlled it ever since. The first recorded "j-ass" (short for 
jack-ass) recording was performed by a group of people who the aristocrats 
selected. It would have been unthinkable and unprofitable to use black 
people to record black music.
American classical music has always had trouble with its African-American 
core because it has always been given a negative meaning. I interviewed Art 
"Buhania" Blakey several years ago after a concert at Duke University and he 
was highly ticked off because there were almost no black people in 
attendance. When I asked him was there a conspiracy to keep the music away 
from black people, he said, "Hell, no!" Buhania went on to say that black 
people don't particularly like it and have been told by black preachers not 
to listen to the music because it was "devil's music."
I have been a jazz radio announcer/writer for three decades and have heard 
many blacks tell me that they don't like jazz because it moves too fast or 
slow, there is not enough soulful singing, or that white folks like it. 
These are all absurd reasons of course, but that's reality. How do we solve 
it? How do we reverse decades of fear and ignorance? Good questions. Maybe 
we should ask the aristocrats--the 10 families or .001% of the world who run 
things. The answer is to keep on doing what we are doing by promoting it, 
playing it on the radio and by posing such questions and challenging the 
status quo when they keep trying to make it something that it isn't. It is 
BLACK MUSIC and it will continue to be for another 100 years. Just like we 
know that the Old Dixieland Jass Band was some watered down, mediocre music, 
we will know that most of the music we hear these days that passes itself 
off as American classical music (jazz) is as fake as a three-dollar bill.



> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 09:23:22 -0500
> From: dreamtrane at gmail.com
> To: jazzproglist at jazzweek.com
> Subject: [JPL] BAM
>
> THIS WEEK'S SPONSOR: The JazzWeek relaunch -- JazzWeek 2.0 -- crowdfunding 
> project has launched. Visit http://www.indiegogo.com/jazzweek for more 
> information. Become part of the solution.
>
> ---
>
> Jazzers,
>
> There's been some fuss over the new BAM sticker slapped on the music. To
> put the topic in context, check out this recent blog post by Nicholas
> Peyton:
>
> http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2012/01/14/to-my-dear-doubting-uncle-thomas-an-open-letter-to-greg-thomas/
>
> Fiery, provocative, acerbic. But you see the mind set of the man.
>
> mike
>
>
> --
>
> Jazz Programmers' Mailing List: jazzproglist at jazzweek.com
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